168. I was led to yet another earth in the universe beyond our solar system, and on this occasion also by changes of state continued for nearly twelve hours. In company with me were several spirits and angels from our Earth, with whom I conversed during this voyage or progression. I was carried at times obliquely upwards and obliquely downwards, continually towards the right, which in the other life is towards the south. In two places only did I see spirits, and in one I spoke with them. During this journey or progression I was permitted to observe how immense was the Lord’s heaven, which is designed for angels and spirits; for from the parts uninhabited I was enabled to conclude that it was so immense that, supposing there were many myriads of earths, and on each earth as great a multitude of human beings as on our own, there would still be a place of abode for them to eternity, and it would never be filled. This I was enabled to conclude from a comparison made with the [inhabited] extent of the heaven which is about our Earth and designed for it, which extent was so small relatively, as not to equal one ten-thousand-thousandth part of the extent uninhabited.

169. When the angelic spirits who were from that earth came into view, they accosted us, asking who we were, and what we wanted. We told them that we were travelling, that we had been transported thither, and that they had nothing to fear from us. For they were afraid that we were of those who disturb them concerning God, faith, and kindred subjects, on account of whom they had betaken themselves to that quarter of their earth, shunning them as much as possible. We asked them by what they were disturbed. They replied, by the idea of Three, and by the idea of the Divine without the Human in God, when they yet know and perceive that God is one, and that He is man. It was then perceived that those who disturbed them, and whom they shunned, were from our Earth: this was manifest also from this consideration, that there are spirits from our Earth who thus wander about in the other life, in consequence of their fondness for and delight in travelling, which they have contracted in the world; for on other earths there is no such custom of travelling as on ours. It was afterwards discovered that they were monks, who had travelled on our globe from a desire to convert the gentiles. We therefore told them that they did well to shun them, because their intention was, not to teach, but to secure gain and dominion; and that they strive by various means first to captivate men’s minds (animi), and afterwards to subject them to themselves as slaves: moreover, that they did well in not suffering their idea concerning God to be disturbed by such spirits. They said further, that these spirits also confuse them by asserting that they ought to have faith, and to believe what they say; but that their reply to them is, that they do not know what faith or believing means, since they perceive in themselves whether a thing be so or not. They were of the Lord’s celestial kingdom, where all know by interior perception the truths which with us are called the truths of faith, for they are in enlightenment from the Lord; but it is otherwise with those who are in the spiritual kingdom. That the angelic spirits of that earth were of the Lord’s celestial kingdom, I could also see from the flame whence their ideas flowed; for in the celestial kingdom the light is flaming, and in the spiritual kingdom it is bright white. They who are of the celestial kingdom, when the discourse is about truths, say no more than Yea, yea, or Nay, nay, and never reason about them whether they be so or not. These are they of whom the Lord says, “Let your discourse be Yea, yea, Nay, nay; what is beyond this is of evil” [(Matt. ]. Hence it was that those spirits said that they did not know what it is to have faith or to believe. They consider this to be like one saying to his companion, who with his own eyes sees houses or trees, that he ought to have faith or to believe that they are houses and trees, when he sees clearly that they are so. Such are they who are of the Lord’s celestial kingdom, and such were these angelic spirits[aaa]. We told them that few on our Earth have interior perception, because in their youth they learn truths, and do not practise them. For man has two faculties, which are called the understanding and the will; they who admit truths no further than into the memory, and thence in some degree into the understanding, but not into the life, that is, into the will, these, inasmuch as they cannot be in any enlightenment or interior sight from the Lord, say that those truths ought to be believed, or that man ought to have faith in them; and they also reason about them whether they be truths or not; nay, they are not willing that they should be perceived by any interior sight, or by any enlightenment by the understanding. They say this, because truths with them are without light from heaven, and to those who see without light from heaven, falsities may appear as truths, and truths as falsities. Hence so great blindness has fallen on many on our Earth, that although a man does not practise truths or live according to them, they say nevertheless that he may be saved by faith alone, as if a man were not man from the life and according to it, but from the knowledge of such things as belong to faith, apart from the life. We afterwards conversed with them concerning the Lord, concerning love to Him, love towards the neighbour, and regeneration; saying, that loving the Lord consists in loving the precepts which are from Him, that is, in living according to them from love[bbb]; that love towards the neighbour consists in willing good and thence doing good to a fellow-citizen, to one’s country, to the church, to the Lord’s kingdom, not for the selfish end of being seen or acquiring merit, but from the affection of good[ccc]. Concerning regeneration, we observed that they who are being regenerated by the Lord, and who commit truths immediately to the life, come into an interior perception concerning them; but that those who receive truths first in the memory, and afterwards will them and do them, are those who are in faith; for they act from faith, which is then called conscience. These things, they said, they perceived to be so, and therefore perceived also what faith is. I conversed with them by means of spiritual ideas, by which such subjects may be exhibited and comprehended in light.

170. The spirits with whom I had now spoken were from the northern part of their earth. I was afterwards led to others who were on the western part. These also, wishing to examine who and what I was; immediately said that there was nothing in me but evil, thinking that thus I might be deterred from approaching nearer. I apperceived that this was their manner of accosting all who come to them. But it was given me to reply that I well knew it to be so, and that in them likewise there was nothing but evil, by reason that every one is born into evil, and therefore whatever comes from man, spirit, or angel, as from what is his own, or from his proprium, is nothing but evil; inasmuch as all the good that is in every one, is from the Lord. Hence they apperceived that I was in the truth, and I was admitted to converse with them. They then showed me their idea concerning evil in man, and concerning good from the Lord, how they are separated from each other. They placed one near the other, almost contiguous, but still distinct, yet as if bound in an inexpressible manner, so that the good led the evil, and restrained it, insomuch that it was not allowed to act at pleasure; and that thus the good bent the evil in whatever direction it desired, without the evil knowing anything of it. In this manner they exhibited the dominion of good over evil, and at the same time a state of freedom. They then asked how the Lord appeared amongst the angels from our Earth. I said that He appeared in the sun as a Man, encompassed therein with a fiery solar [sphere], from which the angels in the heavens derive all light; and that the heat which proceeds thence is the Divine Good, and that the light which proceeds thence is the Divine Truth, both from the Divine Love, which is the fiery [sphere] appearing around the Lord in that sun; but that that sun only appears to the angels in heaven, and not to the spirits who are beneath, since the latter are more remote from the reception of the good of love and of the truth of faith, than the angels who are in the heavens (see above, n. It was given them thus to inquire concerning the Lord, and concerning His appearance before the angels from our Earth, because it pleased the Lord then to become present among them, and to reduce into order the things which had been disturbed there by the evil spirits of whom they complained. The reason also why I was led thither, was in order that I might be an eye-witness of these things.

171. There was then seen a dark cloud towards the east descending from on high, which in its descent appeared by degrees full of light and in the human form. At length this [human form] appeared in a flaming radiance, encompassed with small stars of the same colour. Thus the Lord presented Himself before the spirits with whom I was conversing. At His presence all the spirits who were there were instantly gathered together from every side; and when they were come, they were separated, the good from the evil, the good to the right and the evil to the left, and this in an instant as of their own accord. Those on the right were arranged in order according to the quality of the good, and those on the left according to the quality of the evil, with them: they who were good remained to form among themselves a heavenly society; but the evil were cast into the hells. Afterwards I saw that that flaming radiance descended to the lower parts of the earth there to a considerable depth, and then it appeared at one time in a flaming [lustre] verging to luminosity, at another time in a luminosity verging into obscurity, and at another in obscurity: and I was told by the angels that that appearance is according to the reception of truth from good, and of falsity from evil, with those who inhabit the lower parts of that earth, and that the flaming radiance itself was subject to no such variations. They also said, that the lower parts of that earth were inhabited both by the good and by the evil; but that they were thoroughly separated, to the end that the evil might be ruled by the Lord through the good. They added, that the good are by turns elevated thence into heaven by the Lord, and that others succeed in their place, and so on perpetually. In that descent, the good were separated from the evil in like manner, and all things were reduced to order; for the evil, by various arts and cunning contrivances, had intruded themselves into the dwellings of the good there, and had infested them; and this was the cause of the present visitation. That cloud, which in descending appeared by degrees full of light and in the human form, and afterwards as a flaming radiance, was an angelic society, in whose midst the Lord was. From this it was given me to know what is meant by the Lord’s words in the Gospels, where, speaking of the Last Judgment, He says, “That He would come with the angels in the clouds of heaven, with glory and power” [(Matt. xxi; Mark xii; Luke xx].

172. After this were seen some monkish spirits, those, namely, who have already been spoken of as having been travelling monks or missionaries in the world; and there was also seen a crowd of spirits who were from that earth, most of them evil, whom they had drawn over to their side, and led astray. These were seen on the eastern quarter of that earth, from whence they had driven away the good, who betook themselves to the northern side of the earth, and of whom we have spoken above. That crowd, together with their seducers, were collected together to the number of some thousands, and were separated; the evil of that crowd were cast into the hells. It was also given me to speak with one spirit who was a monk, and to ask him what he did there. He replied that he taught them concerning the Lord. I asked, what besides. He said, concerning heaven and hell. I asked, what further. He said, concerning faith in all that he should say. I asked again, if he taught anything else. He said, concerning the power of remitting sins, and of opening and shutting heaven. He was then examined as to what he knew concerning the Lord, the truths of faith, the remission of sins, man’s salvation, and heaven and hell; and it was discovered that he knew scarcely anything, that he was in obscurity and falsity concerning all and each of these subjects, and that he was possessed solely by the lust of acquiring gain and dominion, which he had contracted in the world and brought with him from thence. He was therefore told that as he had, prompted by that lust, travelled thus far, and as he was such in regard to doctrine, he could not but deprive the spirits of that earth of heavenly light, and inflict on them the darkness of hell, and thus cause hell, and not the Lord, to have dominion with them. Moreover, he was cunning in seducing, but stupid as to the things relating to heaven. As he was of such a character, he was afterwards cast into hell. Thus the spirits of that earth were freed of them.

173. The spirits of that earth, amongst other things, also said that those strangers, who, as has been said, were monkish spirits, used all their endeavours to persuade them to live together in society, and not separate and solitary. For spirits and angels dwell and live together just as they had done in the world. Those who have dwelt together collectively in the world, also dwell collectively together in the other life; and those who have dwelt separated into households and families, also dwell separated there. These spirits, whilst they had lived as men on their earth, had dwelt separated, every household and family, and thus every clan, apart, and therefore knew not what it was to dwell together in society. Wherefore, when it was told them that those strangers wanted to persuade them to this, in order that they might reign and rule over them, and that they could not otherwise subject them to themselves and make them slaves, they replied that they were totally ignorant what was meant by reigning and ruling. That they flee away at the bare idea of rule and domination, was manifest to me from this circumstance, that one of them, who accompanied us on the return journey, when I showed him the city in which I dwelt, at the first sight of it fled away, and was seen no more.

174. I then conversed with the angels who were with me, concerning dominion, that there are two kinds of dominion, one, of love towards the neighbour, and the other, of the love of self; and that the dominion of love towards the neighbour exists among those who dwell separated into households, families, and clans: but the dominion of the love of self among those who dwell together in society. Among those who live separated into households, families, and clans, he who is the father of the clan bears rule, and under him the fathers of families, and under these the fathers of each household. He is called the father of the clan, from whom the families are derived, and the households of which the families are composed. But all these exercise dominion from love, like the love of a father towards his children, who teaches them how they ought to live, provides for their good, and as far as possible gives to them of what is his own. It never enters into his mind to subject them to himself, as subjects or as servants, but he loves that they should obey him as sons obey their father. And since this love, as is known, increases in descending, therefore the father of a clan acts from a more inward love than the father himself from whom the children are immediately descended. Such also is the dominion in the heavens, because such is the Lord’s dominion; for His dominion is from Divine Love towards the whole human race. But the dominion of the love of self, which is opposite to the dominion of love towards the neighbour, began when man alienated himself from the Lord; for in proportion as a man does not love and worship the Lord, in that proportion he loves and worships himself, and in that proportion also he loves the world. Then it was that, from the necessity for self-preservation, clans consisting of families and households gathered themselves into one body, and established governments under various forms. For in proportion as that love increased, in the same proportion evils of every kind, as, enmity, envy, hatred, revenge, cruelty and deceit, increased with it, being directed against all who opposed that love; for from the proprium, in which those are who are in the love of self, nothing but evil springs, inasmuch as man’s proprium is nothing but evil, and, as the proprium is evil, it is not receptive of good from heaven: therefore the love of self, when it is the reigning love, is the father of all such evils[ddd]; and that love is also of such a nature, that in proportion as it is left without restraint, it rushes on until at length each one who is of such a character wants to have dominion over all others in the whole globe, and wishes to possess all the goods of the others; nay, it is not even content with this, but would have dominion over the whole heaven; as may appear from the case of modern Babylon. Such then is the dominion of the love of self, from which the dominion of love towards the neighbour differs as much as heaven does from hell. But notwithstanding that the dominion of the love of self is such in societies, or in kingdoms and empires, there nevertheless exists even in these a dominion of love towards the neighbour among those who are wise from faith in and love to God, for these love the neighbour. That in the heavens also these dwell distinguished into clans, families, and households, although in societies together, but according to spiritual affinities which have relation to the good of love and the truth of faith, will, by the Lord’s Divine mercy, be stated elsewhere.

175. I afterwards questioned those spirits concerning various things in the earth from which they were; and first, concerning their Divine worship, and concerning revelation. Concerning the Divine worship, they said that clans, with their families, meet together every thirtieth day, in one place, and hear preaching; and that on these occasions the preacher, from a pulpit raised a little from the ground, teaches them the Divine truths which lead to the good of life. Concerning revelation, they said that it is made early in the morning in a state midway between sleeping and wakefulness, when they are in an interior light not as yet interfered with by the bodily senses and worldly things; that on such occasions they hear the angels of heaven speaking concerning Divine truths, and a life according to them; and that when they are quite awake, an angel in a white garment appears to them by the bed, and then suddenly disappears from their sight; and that by this they know that what they have heard is from heaven. Thus a Divine vision is distinguished from a vision which is not Divine; for in a vision which is not Divine no angel appears. They added, that in such a manner revelations are made with their preachers, and sometimes also with others.

176. On questioning them concerning their houses, they said that they are lowly, built of wood, with a flat roof, having a cornice sloping downwards; and that in front dwell the husband and wife, in the next chamber the children, and the maid-servants and men-servants at the back. With regard to food, they said that they drink milk with water; and that they get the milk from cows, which are woolly like sheep. Concerning their [mode of] life, they said that they go naked, and that to them nakedness is not a matter of shame; also that their habitual association is with those who are within their own families.

177. Concerning the sun of that earth, they related that it appears to the inhabitants of a flame-colour; that the time of their year is two hundred days, and that a day equals nine hours of our time, which they could conclude from the length of the days of our Earth perceived in me; and further, that they have a perpetual spring and summer, and consequently that the fields are ever blooming, and the trees are ever bearing fruit: the reason why the case is thus is, that their year is so short, being equal to the time of only seventy-five days of our year; and when the years are so short, the cold does not continue long in winter nor the heat in summer, and the ground in consequence is in a continual state of verdancy.

178. Concerning betrothals and marriages on that earth, they related that a daughter, when she approaches a marriageable age, is kept at home, nor is she allowed to go out till the day she is to be married; and that she is then conducted to a certain connubial house, where several other marriageable young women are also brought; that they are there placed behind a screen, which reaches as high as the middle of the body, so that they appear naked as to the breast and face; that on such occasions the young men come there to choose for themselves a wife; and that when a young man sees a young woman suitable for him, and to whom his mind (animus) draws him, he takes her by the hand. If she then follows him, he leads her to a house that has been prepared, and she becomes his wife. For they see from the faces whether they agree in disposition (animus), since on that earth every one’s face is an index of the disposition (animus), and disguises and counterfeits nothing. In order that everything may be done with decency and without lasciviousness, an old man is seated behind the young virgins, and an elderly woman at their side, to watch. There are many such places to which the young women are conducted; and there are also stated times for the young men to make their choice; for if they do not find a girl to suit them at one place, they go to another; and if not at one time, they return again at another. They said further, that a husband has only one wife, and never more than one, because this is contrary to Divine order.